Your Guide to JS Bach's Cello Suites!

00:00:00

John Banther: I'm John Banther, and this is Classical Breakdown. From WETA Classical in Washington, we are your guide to classical music.

In this episode, I'm joined by WETA Classical's resident cello player, James Jacobs. With cello one hand, he enlightens and demonstrates for us everything we need to know about the iconic Cello Suites by Johann Sebastian Bach, from how they came about, certain interpretation problems, and how they became popular in the 20th century. We go through all the Suites, show you what to listen for, and stay with us to the end to enjoy a performance of one of the Suites too.

Thank you so much, James, for joining me. I have been really excited for this episode. I mean, who wouldn't be with an episode on Bach Cello Suites? I think everyone actually is going to be excited for this one.

00:00:49

James Jacobs: I am very excited for this. The Bach Cello Suites are really such a landmark. And really ever since I started... I mean, I began playing the cello because of the Bach Cello Suites. I don't know if I ever told you that-

00:01:03

John Banther: No.

00:01:03

James Jacobs: But my brother played the bassoon and he brought home a recording of... He was learning the Bach Cello Suites on bassoon, as bassoonists do, and he brought home a recording from the library of Pablo Casals playing the Bach Cello Suites. And I was six years younger than him, and they didn't have music in the public schools yet for people my age. But when I heard Casals playing the Bach Cello Suites, I thought, " Oh, I want to play them on cello." And so when I finally got my chance when I was 10 years old to take the cello, that's what I chose, because of hearing Casals play these Suites. Everybody mentions whenever they see a cello or they mention the cello, they mention these works.

00:01:48

John Banther: It has become so popular and so ubiquitous, and as you said, yeah, played by bassoonists, played by anyone that can make a tone is trying to play these, from charango, like a little tiny guitar and everything.

00:01:59

James Jacobs: Even violinists play the Cello Suites.

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John Banther: They don't have enough already.

00:02:02

James Jacobs: Right, exactly. And I imagine you've probably played them on tuba, right?

00:02:05

John Banther: Yes, definitely. You see it in some audition repertoire at times too. So let's just jump into it by looking at, well, when did Bach write this? And maybe why did he write it? Because a lot of the music we have from Bach comes from more sacred purposes like cantatas or things used in liturgical services. But it sounds like James, when he was in his new position in the town of Köthen, he had a lot more leeway. He could kind of write all the secular and instrumental music he wanted.

00:02:37

James Jacobs: Well, Bach had a tendency to write for the instrument he wanted rather than the instrument that was actually in front of him. And this is actually consistent. When he wrote the second Brandenburg Concerto for example, he wrote for piccolo trumpet in F. There is no evidence that a piccolo trumpet in F actually existed in Bach's time. But because he wrote that, then that instrument started to show up. And I think the same thing for the cello. He actually pushed forward the evolution of the cello with these Suites. And the cello was barely an instrument by the time that Bach wrote for it.

There had been a bass violin, which was an instrument that... The bass version of the violin that you had to sit down to play. And the earliest examples of that come from the 16th century. But a violoncello is actually a small version of the violone. That's how you break down the Italian. And the first reference to that came in the 1660s, and even then, it's not exactly sure what it referred to, but eventually came out that they were designing a smaller version of the violone or bass violin that was suitable for solo playing, that was suitable for sonatas and concertos, just like a baritone version of the violin and not just a bass version that could play bass lines and accompanying.

So really the earliest example of music specifically for the violoncello, where cello came in 1689 when Bach was four years old. And so the instrument is actually younger than Bach himself in many ways. And by the time Bach started working with cellists at Köthen, which was really the first job that he had where he was working primarily with instrumentalists, and that's also where he wrote the Brandenburg Concertos and the sonatas and partitas for solo violin.

And so when he wrote these Cello Suites, he was really just testing the waters. It was this huge leap of faith, sort of like, okay, cello players will be able to play this. And it was a challenge because with the violin, there was a tradition, a long tradition of solo violin music. And the way the violin is shaped, you can play chords and full counterpoints. But cello was a challenge because you had to apply everything. You had to do everything by implication. I mean, he was writing all this complex music for keyboard and for the violin, but for cello, he had to go to the next level with his creativity and his technique because he had to bring all that technique out of a single instrument with four strings that wasn't particularly agile. And so in a way, we can sort of see it as Bach setting a goal for himself, a challenge for himself that he met, and also perhaps he also saw that as cello players, he wanted to get in on the just- starting market for cello music.

00:06:00

John Banther: And to put it in a little more context in terms of time, because 1700s, 1600s, it sounds like a long time ago. It was about 1717, 1720 or so when these were all written. And you mentioned something about some of the early music from 1690. Now think about 2023, that was last year. Now think about 1990, that wasn't 10 years ago, that was 34 years ago from right now. And so think about something brand new at that time, and then having someone like Bach writing something like this just so many years later.

00:06:31

James Jacobs: Oh, absolutely.

00:06:32

John Banther: It's quite a statement.

00:06:34

James Jacobs: It really was. It was definitely a statement. And it was definitely, Bach wanted to be first. He was an innovator like Steve Jobs or something like that. He wanted to be first in line with new products and the new gizmos. And it was that kind of heady time for music where Telemann and Handel and Scarlatti were all coming up with all these new ways of what music could be and all the different forms it could take. And these Cello Suites are certainly part of that. And it's interesting because even though the original manuscript has not survived, most of what we have is a manuscript that was actually made by his second wife, Anna Magdalena. But there is also other manuscripts that appeared during Bach's lifetime in other hands. So these Cello Suites were known and they were popular enough to have different editions and different people copying them. Well, we not completely sure of the impact it had. We know that it must have had enough of an impact if there were these multiple copies of the music going around.

00:07:41

John Banther: So we're going to talk a little bit more about Pablo Casals as we go on, and also the music, the actual written music aspect too as we go on. But let's just go ahead and jump into the first suite, which has that iconic opening that everyone knows and is just like... It feels like the cello could never have existed without this music. Tell us about this prelude here.

00:08:03

James Jacobs: It's really true. Now the cello has these four strings, right? A, D, G, C. And of those, the most resonant is actually the second to the bottom, the G string. It's the perfect shape, it's the perfect for the instrument. And so it's almost as if you leave the cello on a mountaintop, it almost sounds like the first suite anyway, just because it has all these natural overtones.

00:08:36

John Banther: If it was on a mountain and the wind was just blowing on the strings.

00:08:39

James Jacobs: Exactly. And if you break down those overtones and you take the overtones of all the strings.

00:08:55

John Banther: And so what James is doing right now, he's barely touching the string. He's not pushing all the way onto the fingerboard, and then you're bowing. So it gives it that kind of ghostly vibrations.

00:09:04

James Jacobs: Right, exactly. It's just a matter of, you find the place on the string where you divide it in half and thirds and it's sort of basic physics of how you subdivide a string into halves and thirds and you create doubles and exponential overtones, ratios like that, and that's how you get these... So it's a very primal thing. So it makes sense that's how he opens the very first suite of the statement for the cello. It's like it just grows out of the cello. It really feels so natural coming out of this. And then he expands it into other related tonalities. And it's such an exploration of where the cello is at. It feels like it's music from the ground up.

00:10:09

John Banther: And something that if you've listened to it many times, you may have not thought about is, is there really even a melody here within this, or is it just texture and harmony and rhythm or something else?

00:10:20

James Jacobs: Well, this is something that Bach was so good at. He also does this in the famous prelude, first prelude from the Well- Tempered Clavier. The beauty there is in just the most basic of chord progressions. And it's like getting you to listen to the basic elements of music more carefully. It's almost like he's being a teacher. He's teaching us how to listen to music. And so you might hear something like that just by the wind blowing through the trees in a certain way on a windy day, having these different overtones happen. And this is Bach sort of focusing us, sort of listen to the natural progression of... You go to... And then go to the subdominal... And then...

00:11:30

John Banther: It sounds like a natural breathing in and out too.

00:11:34

James Jacobs: Right, exactly. Natural. And that chord progression comes from... Is also based in the overtone series. It's 1, 4, 5, 1. It's the most basic progression in all of music. And there's a reason for it just by having us luxuriate in just the elements of the resonance of the cello itself. He's introducing us to this whole world that he's going to sustain for all six suites. And what's interesting about the first suite in particular is that the suites are in six movements. The idea of a suite... The broke suite was a kind of elaboration, sort of elegant dance suite that a fiddler would play for a set of dances. And so the prelude was a demolition of the musician warming up and also kind of showing off for the audience and by playing scales and arpeggios and establishing a tonality and a mood.

00:12:33

John Banther: So it was like they were getting everyone's attention. Hey, something's about to happen. Here are some teasers of what you might expect and everyone gather around.

00:12:43

James Jacobs: Exactly. And during the prelude, you choose your partner and you would go to the dance floor and you would appreciate the talents of the musician who would be accompanying your dances. And then the first dance is an allemande, which is the stately German dance, which is actually just walking steps, really. It's just promenading with your partner. And it's interesting that how Bach presents this in the very first suite is sort of almost taking up where the prelude left off with stills, with that same chord. It's like the cello is walking up and down like the dancers are going to be walking, just walking around and promenading around the hall in a certain pattern. And then we have the courante, which is a very lively... Well, there was a French courante and Italian courante, but the Italian one was the one that Bach was interested in, which was this lively dance. And there was more running and jumping, but it's still based in those same elemental tones.

00:13:56

John Banther: So we have the prelude, which introduces the ideas that we're about to hear, the theme, the tone. The allemande is the more walking promenade type thing. And then the courante, that is when we're more upbeat and in three. And each courante dance in each of the suites is in three.

00:14:14

James Jacobs: Yes, exactly. So he's establishing the pattern that he will follow for all the suites in the set. And then we have the sarabande, which is... What's interesting about the sarabande is that it's in three, but it feels like the (inaudible) beat is actually on two. So it's probably the most famous example of this is the old Spanish dance, and it is a Spanish dance. It's (inaudible) . I mean, Bach doesn't always completely conform to this, but in case of the first suite is... And he does this in all the suites. And because it's slower and more ruminative, sometimes, especially as we go forward through the set of the six suites, he forgets that it's a dance, and it becomes really sort of an expression of... It becomes a means for Bach to really create the most personal expression and the most emotional expression.

And also it's the one movement of the suite where Bach is not afraid to have the cello sound lonely. And he sort of leans into the solitariness of it all. And also it should be pointed out that people didn't really dance to these suites. I mean, the whole point, it's-

00:15:54

John Banther: Not literally.

00:15:55

James Jacobs: Not literally. I mean by this time, the suite as a form had been around for a century or so. And so the whole idea is that it's like it evoked the idea of dancing in your mind's eye and in the feel, but this was a musical form. So even though it evolved from dancing, that should be emphasized. And then the fifth-

00:16:17

John Banther: Actually, before we go to the next movement, I kind of want to mention that the Sarabande feels like every time it appears in the suite, not an intermission, but it's something that works like an intermission where it's that moment alone. I guess what I'm trying to say is it really divides the suite up, I think almost symphonically in a way because you have the prelude, which really introduces things like the opening of a symphony, and then we have something in between that's really intimate before we get to something more flourish for an end.

00:16:49

James Jacobs: That's absolutely true. And in a way, it was kind of like the slow movement to a symphony before those concepts really existed.

00:16:56

John Banther: Yeah, that's what it sounds like.

00:16:58

James Jacobs: And it sort of almost helped pioneer that whole idea that you did need kind of this moment of repose and contrast and sort of a... It's like a moment to kind of get real in a way and to kind of luxuriate in the music itself and the possibilities of the music itself and go to this place because the prelude is one thing. It's really sort of about how great is this performer? And then the allemande and courante is establishing the dance form and how the tone of the prelude invests in these types of dances. And then the sarabande is when you can sort of loosen up and really get into more emotional, darker, deeper territory.

When people talk about the Bach Cello Suites, the two movements that they're most likely to sort of zero in on are the preludes and the sarabandes. They sort of really establish the personality. But the fifth movement also has its fans, and that's sort of the closest we get to the scherzo or the minuet and trio of the symphonic form. And this is the one area in which Bach sort of changed it up throughout the six suites. The first two are minuets. The established dance in three quarters time, which again, in the first suite starts with those same three notes.

So it starts with those same three notes as the prelude, but then in the second minuet, we finally get the minor key, which we haven't had in this suite at all. So it becomes this different mood and it really stands out. But then we get back into the sunshine of the first minuet, and later on he switches that out for other dance forms like the bourrée and the gavotte. And then the final movement is the gigue, which sounds like jig. And that's exactly what it is, it's the Irish jig. And it's a very lively dance, and it's a wonderful animated way of ending the suite and bringing us full circle. He really, in these suites, creates this very satisfying way of presenting this kind of abstract, idealized version of a dance set and takes us through this journey. And also these dance forms also, remember, they're from all over Europe or all over what they known as the world. So it really feels like an international trip as well.

00:20:09

John Banther: You really explained that very well, all the movements that make up the suite, which you don't exactly dance to. And when you mentioned the movements that some will focus on, I think maybe especially a cellist, the prelude and the sarabande, I never really thought about this until the other week when you mentioned it. And so I actually went and listened to all of the suites in a row, but just the prelude and just the sarabande of each one, skipped every other dance. And it was so interesting because you hear hints and illusions of all these other things that you hear in the suite, but you don't hear those movements. You're just hearing a story about it.

00:20:49

James Jacobs: Well, it's interesting. It really does feel like fractal elements. You get these little cells of just three or four notes that reappear every... So it's like in the one little cell of music, you get all this information that then he spreads out in so many different ways. And so that's what keeps you engaged on a sort of subliminal level, sort of like he's still including these little cells of information, little DNA through all six movements. And it's like six different ways of looking at the cell, looking at these three or four notes and all the different permutations you can... It's like dancing with it really, in all these different ways. And the sarabande and prelude are the two movements in which he allows... He's sort of the least fettered by the constraints of the form and sort of allows his imagination to go wild.

00:21:51

John Banther: So that's a bit on the first suite in G Major, which is quite famous. It's the first one. Before we get to the second suite, James, I'm wondering about something we mentioned a little bit earlier in terms of the music. We don't have the original manuscript from Bach, but we have some copies that have survived from Anna Magdalena. Now, the thing is, when you look at the music, when you look at a piece of Bach music, especially this type of solo work, it looks like often just a bunch of 16th notes or 8th notes in a row with nothing else, no dynamics, no slurs, no anything. And at first it's like, oh, this looks easy. It's just a bunch of 16th notes, say less. But then you start playing and you think, oh my God, this is going to kill me.

00:22:34

James Jacobs: Yeah. There's so many different decisions that you have to make about how to say that. Actually, it's funny because it just sort of reminded me of one of my other obsessions, was Shakespeare and how the texts that we get are just, they are words with very little in the way of stage directions or settings or anything like that. There's so many different ways of interpreting them. And so with Bach, we get notes. And one thing that we know from how Anna Magdalena wrote her music is that she was a little cavalier about her slurs and slurs may not seem like a big deal, and I'll explain what they are in a second. But slurs, they are the subject of such huge debate. There are huge seminars on the slurs in Bach Cello Suites. And what I mean by slurs is, so here are three notes. You can (inaudible) them separately or you can play them all in one stroke. And that's how we get different articulations. I mean, you can go... Or you can go... Or. And...

00:24:03

James Jacobs: ... or ... And people do it all three of those different ways, and the people who do all those different ways have evidence to back up their way because that's how sloppy the slurs are. And the additions that came out during Bach's lifetime don't always agree with each other. In fact, they frequently don't. So that's such a huge debate. And in a way, that's actually why ... There's the 50 recordings of the Bach cello suites, and there's room for 50 recordings because they all sound different. They're all really a reflection of the performer, and it gives the performer that much room to sort of put their own stamp on how they interpret these suites.

And so a lot of it is about articulation, but there's other aspects too, like there's no tempo markings. Nobody tells you how fast or slow these things are. I mean, you can extrapolate that from different remarks. Like Quantz, who is a theorist and famous flute player and musician of Bach's time said that you can judge a tempo for an andante by off the clock in your ... So he said, " Oh, so that means that that tempo is 60 beats per minute." And that's really not much to go on.

00:25:21

John Banther: No.

00:25:21

James Jacobs: And not everything is a division of seconds. So there's all sorts of interpretive things. Also soft and loud. There's no dynamics. So you really have to ... There's all these different decisions that have to be made or even what notes to emphasize. And you're right, when you stare at it just looks like, " That's a bunch of black ink." And it's really intimidating at first. And as you say, it can look very elementary or simple-

00:25:59

John Banther: Yeah, it looks simplistic.

00:26:00

James Jacobs: ... until you start getting into it and it's like, " No, it's not simple at all."

00:26:10

John Banther: Going into the second suite, this is in D Minor. And the thing is, it's like, what's my favorite suite? Well, it's whichever one is playing at the moment it seems for me. And I was listening to the D minor one and the number three, which is in C major, especially listening to them coming in. But D minor, this seems to also really sit well on the cello.

00:26:31

James Jacobs: Oh yeah, it's beautiful. And again, it feels very primal. The key of D minor resonates very, very well on the cello. But also it's the minor tonality. There are complex ways why the minor tonality has that sort of clouded sound, because the lowered third is sort of in conflict with the major third of the overtone series. And so there's always a slight dissonance or shading. And that is very well- illustrated when you hear it played on the cello, especially in the key of D minor.

And there's a sort of precedent for the style of this suite that you can find in the music for Viola de Gamba of the time, especially the French music of people like (foreign language) and his tombas. He wrote these long pieces and minor keys. In fact, very frequently in D minor, specifically, that were memorials. Tomba means tomb. So there were memorials to specific people in his life that have died. And there are elements in the second suite where you sort of feel like he's evoking the Viola de Gamba in like chords, yeah, at the beginning of the Aleman, these rolling chords of the kind that you don't really hear in the first suite.

All of a sudden, he's evoking the viol and he's evoking this sort of mournful style. And there's also something so primal about it. At times, in the prelude and in the sarabande, especially, there we go again, it feels almost cantorial. There's someone leading a service of grief at a memorial service. And it's soul- searching. And it really brings out what we think of when we think of what the cello can do, and that beauty and that emotion that you ring from the cello. And this is really the first piece that says this is what the cello can do. And in fact, the cello can do this in a way better than the viol can, better than the gamba can.

00:28:52

John Banther: Okay. And so Bach is, he's showing that, yeah, the cello can do all of these things and more because the cello was still kind of not new, but like I said, it's in its early development of these kinds of things. What else can we listen for within this second suite?

00:29:24

James Jacobs: Well, again, you have the tonality of the D minor, this ... Of those notes. You hear that at the beginning, established at the beginning of every movement. And again, just like in the first suite in the minuets, you had this contrast between major and then minor and then major. In the minuets, the second suite, it's minor then major than minor. And so, the sun comes out for just about 30 seconds, and then we go back into the clouds of minor. And it also brings almost a fatalistic quality to the gig, which in the first suite, felt so joyful. And in the second suite, that relentlessness and that dance quality sort of almost made it sound like we're all barreling toward our doom or something, if you want to look at it that way. But it's like this is a tragedy. And there's also a sort of catharsis in a way. So it's really this absolute masterpiece, but there's a progression in the six suites and the fact that he, and there's still-

00:30:56

John Banther: Like harmonically?

00:30:57

James Jacobs: Well harmonically, but also I think in terms of detailing what the possibilities that the cello can be. Like in the second suite, he's still dealing with the cello as it is. Yes, he's evoking the viola de gamba, but he's not stretching the possibilities of a cello. He's still dealing with the basic elements like he did in the first suite, of what comes naturally out of the cello, and its strings and its resonance. And he was definitely doing that in the second suite as well. But sort of showing the flip side in terms of its expressive possibilities.

00:31:39

John Banther: Now speaking of resonance, the third suite, which is in C major, to me, I mean, it has such a huge sound. This is what I kind of thought, this would be more natural for the cello. Also, C is the key of one of my main instruments too, so I also like the key. It feels so rich and luxurious, and C is the lowest string on the instrument, right?

00:32:03

James Jacobs: Right, exactly.

00:32:04

John Banther: But why would it not be as natural to the G major? Maybe just because it's a little bit lower?

00:32:11

James Jacobs: Well, the only reason it's not as natural is because if the C string, if that were to be as resonant as the G string is, the cello would have to be quite a bit larger. So it's similar to what they call the C string problem on the viola. It has a slightly nasal quality because the size of the body doesn't really do that low note justice. But it's still better than the viola in terms of it's closer, and you can still do quite a lot with it.

And certainly, he establishes that intention of creating almost like the illusion of more resonance than is actually there with this race to that journey that we get at the very beginning. " Ladies and gentlemen, here is the C- string, here's what the cello can do next." And by setting it off, he's setting up, " Listen to the C- string and this whole." In the first suite. Yeah, that's cool. And that's what the entire first suite is based on that. But now in the third suite, it's ... This whole universe opens up.

And also, just in that first phrase, we get a scale, and then we get an arpeggio, a broken chord. And that sets up what the entire prelude is about, which is a conversation between scales, and it goes on, and then we get the broken chords, the arpeggios. And so, that's the entire journey of the prelude. And then, that comes together in a climax when we get ... and ... And so, he operates on three different levels at once. It's almost like we're on a boat sailing through the sea, and we somehow manage to have scales and arpeggios and this tonality all at the same time. And so, he creates this sense of grandeur.

And that's really what sets the third suite apart from the first two suites is that in the first, it was about going from the ground up, what the cello itself would say, if it could say something. And then, in the second, it's like how does the cello cry? How does the cello weep and express itself that way? And the third, it's like, how can the cello take up more space than perhaps it's entitled to? How do you create the illusion of space and establish itself and on a stage that could fill a cathedral? That's what you see in the third suite, is taking the center stage. In both the third and fourth suites, I hear elements of Bach's organ music, this sense of creating this sort of cathedral- like space within the music. And so, you have that C major tonality permeate all the movements. And so, he really engages ... In a way, this is the first suite where he engages all four strings. I mean, he's used all four strings before, but in terms of building up the harmony, in terms of building up the space that the cello takes sonically.

00:36:14

John Banther: The prelude also has something to it that happens in each suite. It almost has a mini cadenza moment.

00:36:20

James Jacobs: Yeah, this is what happens in all the preludes, which is, again, something that he also did in the prelude in his organ preludes and his harpsichord preludes. And they established this sort of basic material of the movement, whether it's based on a chord. And that sort of chain of 16th notes that we keep on talking about, that seems endless but has its own journey within that. And then, there's always a moment where everything stops, and then it sounds like the cello is improvising or sort of going off script and doing something sort of dangerous and different and also being a little showoffy as it were.

And I mean, it's extraordinary enough in the first two suites, but what's different about the third suite is that it creates that climax of ... I think you would say symphonic in a way. Instead of having this sort of break and then this different material, it feels like it all flows together and doesn't stop. I mean, near the end, there is this wonderful, very symphonic stop of these chords that are very, very dramatic, of the type that we haven't heard in the first two suites, which is again, another way for the cello to establish this grandeur, this magnificence and dominance. And I think the notion of a cello having a conversation with itself is also, I think, more clear in this suite than in the other suites, where you really feel these multiple voices conversing with one another. And you hear that in the prelude. And you hear that, for example, in the bouree, right? So you have one voice, and then another voice, and then they come together. And it really feels like a conversation. And again, you have this sense that the cello contains multitudes and it's-

00:38:45

John Banther: Well, that's a popular movement, that bouree, for low brass players. I've seen that in competitions. I've had to play that. And I love hearing you talking about, yeah, it's a conversation because in two, but also one voice, you can have a similar conversation with yourself. But when they both come together like that, that's something you can't really do on a wind instrument, all the double stops like that. We can sing when we play. That's a whole kind of extended technique thing that's not working right here. But on the cello, it really brings it together, those two voices.

00:39:20

James Jacobs: Right. And I think you sort of also are bringing an aspect. I mean, one of the things that people often say about Bach is that it sounds great no matter what you play it on. And to a certain extent, that's true. But there's also certain things that Bach does that are really specific to the instrument that he writes for. So it works on both levels. As we talked about earlier, even the most cellistic moments of those six suites can work when you hear it on other instruments, but it brings that extra special celloness when you hear it.

00:39:59

John Banther: Yeah. I mean, everyone's recorded. I literally tried to find one on someone doing it on kazoo, and I couldn't. I looked everywhere. I figured someone has played Bach cello suites or something on a kazoo for fun.

00:40:10

James Jacobs: Well, Frans Bruggen played them on the recorder, and so that's something. And I believe there's ukulele interpretations and ... Yeah.

00:40:21

John Banther: It's been played on so many instruments. And after the break, we'll talk about maybe the person that's responsible for all of these different recordings and popularity. We'll talk about Pablo Casals right after this.

Okay, James, now we're going to talk a little bit about Pablo Casals, who really got you into the cello, it sounds like. But he is the reason why we're even really talking about this and why we have all these recordings, isn't he?

00:40:46

James Jacobs: Right. And I just want to talk briefly about the history of the Bach cello suites between the time he wrote them in the 1720s and the time that Pablo Casals discovered them in the 1880s. The one milestone between those that I want to talk about very briefly is Robert Schumann, who actually wrote piano accompaniments to all the cello suites. I suppose that was the way that they could be performed by cello players of the mid- 19th century at that time. The accompaniments add nothing to the music, really, of any particular value, but they're kind of interesting to hear as just as sort of a musicological exercise. And also, really their only value is that, oh, people had heard of the Bach cello suites.

00:41:45

John Banther: It's good historical information.

00:41:46

James Jacobs: It's good historical information. But we don't really know that meant. And so when Pablo Casals, who was born in 1876 in the Catalonia region of Spain, his first cello was a gourd that his father had built, with strings. And he finally ... He actually didn't have a real cello until he was 10 years old, and he was mostly self- taught. And then, when he was 13, he wandered into a used bookstore and found an edition of the Bach cello suites and he spent a couple of decades learning them. And in the meantime, he had this extraordinary career. When he was 22, he played for Queen Victoria. In 1904, he played at the White House for the first time for Teddy Roosevelt, which he then revisited in 1961 for JFK. And he was really the first superstar cellist. And the fact that he grew up at the same time as the advent of recordings was pivotal to his success. And also jet transportation, which is the reason he was able to go all over the world.

And he was actually almost 60 when he started recording the cello suites in 1936, which this was a very fraught time, obviously, in the world. And he was in exile from Spain because the Spanish Civil War had just started. And so he recorded the first two suites at Abbey Road Studios, the famous Abbey Road Studios in London, far from home. And then, he recorded two more suites in Paris in 1938, and the final two the following year. And during that time, Spain had fallen to the Franco regime, which inspired Casals to vow not to return to Spain until the nationalists had been defeated. And also, not to play in any countries that recognized the Franco regime, which effectively meant that his playing career was over.

But at the same time that he made this vow, he made this recording of the Bach cello suites, which was just at the point, it was like the sweet spot of recording technology in the record industry. And it just became this massive hit. And it's almost like people were hungry for this music because what was so revolutionary about his recording is that up to that point, when you heard a record, it was basically a poor substitute for hearing a live performance of something, of whatever it was, whether it was jazz or classical music or whatever. It's like a documentation. But you kind of wished you were there. But at least you got to hear this document.

But the recording of the cello suites, I mean the cello suites is such a personal statement from the performer to the individual listener's ears that when you listen to it, it's not a substitute for anything. It's a valid artistic experience in its own right. And in fact, it almost might even be preferable to a live performance because a live performance has all these distractions, and you have to hear the cello through the filter of everybody else's coughing and shuffling. And here, you heard Casals right into your own ears.

And since the sound of the cello is so much, it's been proven to be the closest to the human voice, it felt like the possibilities of this intimate human connection meant so much during World War II, when that recording became very popular. And it never ceased becoming popular. It's still one of the best- selling classical recordings of all time. And I'm not the only person that was inspired to take up the cello and take up music and to be fascinated because of the strength of that recording, which still has a unique quality that's unmatched. And every time a new cellist does a recording of the suites, they're very, very well aware of filling in Casals's shoes. It's interesting because a local cellist, Amit Peled, did a recording of the suites using the same cello that Casals-

00:46:08

John Banther: Yes, he talked about that.

00:46:09

James Jacobs: ... used. And I interviewed him about that. And so did you, I believe. And it's when amazing experience and legacy that he left.

00:46:21

John Banther: It is a tremendous recording and a tremendous thing that we were able to get these, that they were able to record Pablo Casals playing this. I'll put links and things on the show notes page. It's also a public domain from what I understand, and it's one of the few pre- World War II recordings, in my opinion, that holds up to listening to today, for not just of a record of something, but as you said, to really enjoy something. Alone with headphones, it is almost better than a performance itself.

00:46:52

James Jacobs: Yeah, absolutely. And it helped that he was recording them at these top flight EMI studios.

00:47:00

John Banther: Yes. Now looking at the fourth suite, James, this is one ... I mean, they all sound difficult in a sense that it's difficult. You have so many decisions to make. You have all these missing information like dynamics and tempos and things like that. But when I hear this one, it sounds so beautiful, but I'm also hearing like, " Wow, this sounds like a nightmare to practice or play," especially if you're a new player. All the intonation, I can imagine can be caused an issue of.

00:47:28

James Jacobs: Right. And well, for the first three ... Well, he was trying to change things up, right? Because he was trying to show the infinite variety of the cello. And so for the first three suites, he was building off the natural resonance of the cello, the first suite and the second suite and the third suite. But then the fourth suite is, which it's the most awkward key for the cello, E- flat. And you have to do everything with your fingers. You have to make up your own resonance. What separates the first three suites from the second three-

00:48:00

James Jacobs: Your own resonance. What separates the first three suites from the second three suites is that the second three suites are really on another level in terms of virtuosity. I mean, the first three suites are not ... I mean, they're not simple as we talked about, they're not ... But they tend to grow naturally out of the cello itself. And in a way, the way it flows naturally from the cello is part of its appeal. But in the second three suites he was like " Okay, we're not going to be natural anymore. We're going to show what" ... " We're going to try harder now and sort of see what you can do with extra oomph." Now there's more onus on the performer to make it work. So he creates this whole new resonance. As he's showing off what the possibilities of the cello are, sort of like this is what a cello can do even under these difficult conditions of the key of E- flat. Most people would say the six suite is the most difficult, and it's certainly the most virtuosic, and we'll get to that in a moment.

But the fourth, I think, is absolutely the most difficult of the six suites, and it's exactly for that reason. There's nowhere to hide, there's no way to of cheat on it at all. You can't rely on a stray harmonic to save you or an open string to save you you have to make it all yourself. I mean, there's definitely a progression among the six suites. And the fourth is ... It's longer than any of the first three suites. They keep on getting progressively longer. It's the one that has the most kinship with the organ music, I find, in terms of ... And even the beginning with its stately notes sounds like something that you would hear the pedals of the organ do in one of his early works. It's just this grand statement.

00:49:57

John Banther: In the sarabande of this one, it is filled with double stops and chords. I imagine also maybe an E- flat that makes it more difficult. But is that also the organ aspect?

00:50:08

James Jacobs: Yeah, yeah. It's not like the second suite where he's trying to emulate the viol. Right? That's something only a cello can do. And also, it's not really something that an organ can do right there. When I'm thinking about the organ and the fourth suite I'm thinking really specifically of the prelude. But the sarabande and the other movements as well it's like let's see what else the cello can do, see what else the cello can come up with. There's so many more sonic possibilities that he comes up with in this suite that it's sort of ... It's writing with the awkwardness and the difficulty and making that work to create these new sonorities.

00:51:00

John Banther: It really does feel like what you said before. It's six different ways of looking at the cello or just a fractal of something featuring the cello with these suites because they all have the same movements, more or less, other than some of the minuets and berets are switched out. As you're listening to them, even in a row, you don't get fatigued. It really doesn't feel like you're listening to the same thing monotonously over and over and over again. It really feels like a long, epic story that's being brought out. And especially here for our listeners, I love it when it's the same things again, like the movements, because you hear the emblematic nature or just the specific things to each suite that really brings it to life.

00:51:45

James Jacobs: Right. And this is what Bach does consistently throughout his career is that he gives you a set of six works, each work has a set of six movements. And so you have the part and the whole, and then the sort of meta- whole. A lot of us listen to the Brandenburg Concertos like it's one piece in these six different phases. And the six cello suites are like that. And certainly, Yo- Yo Ma comes out all the time and plays all six suites and then sells out the house. That's what people want to hear. Again, another difference between the first three suites and the second three suites is that we can play the first three suites on the recorder but he didn't even try the second three suites. And I imagine that a tuba would have a hard time with that sarabande.

00:52:40

John Banther: Now if the fourth one is really difficult and they're getting more difficult, what does it mean for the fifth one which is in C minor but still has the same amount of flats in the key signature as E- flat major?

00:52:56

James Jacobs: Right. Well, it helps a little bit because you still get that low C. But C naturally resonates in C major, right? Right?

00:53:10

John Banther: That harmonic thing again.

00:53:11

James Jacobs: So you want it to be E- flat but it's ... Right? So it's a little, I don't want to say, easier but it's different because he's playing with the resonance in a different way. What he does in the fifth suite, I mean, it's so interesting because it's minor key like the second suite but it's a different flavor of minor. He's not thinking about the viola de gamba, he's not thinking about French tombeau music. In a way he sort of explores the extremes of what it means to be a solitary musician. The prelude is, in some ways, the most ambitious single movement of the entire set because he does what we call a French overture. There's this stately introduction.

If you're familiar with Bach's orchestral suites, it's like the first movement of those orchestral suites where it starts with a slow introduction that's very stately and has all these dotted rhythms. And then there's a fugue for solo cello. Now, Bach wrote several fugues for solo violin. And you can make that work because the strings are close enough that you can have double stops, and triple stops, and even quadruple stops, and the fingers can operate independently on different strings. You can't really do that on the cello.

00:54:30

John Banther: Oh, right. So when the violinist is playing maybe the D minor chaconne-

00:54:36

James Jacobs: Yes.

00:54:36

John Banther: Where a note is sustained but they're moving the other fingers around on other notes. That's not something you can really do.

00:54:42

James Jacobs: I mean, you can do it to a certain extent. That's a special effect, it's not something you can really sustain for a whole movement. And so in a weird way the entire movement sort of ... Is an illusion. It's like he's giving the illusion that you're listening to a three- part fugue but it's really just a one voice fugue. I mean, he doesn't even really use double stops that much, even as much as he does in other movements. And it's quite a long movement without repeats. It's a major fugue, it's a major one voice fugue that Bach pulls off and you really feel like you're listening to multiple voices and counterpoint. And it's interesting because he did actually later arrange it for Lute. And that's the one which is one of the key pieces of evidence that this is in fact by Bach because the-

00:55:39

John Banther: Oh, right.

00:55:40

James Jacobs: Lute suite is in Bach's hand. But he doesn't really make it more complicated when he writes about lute. I mean, he adds a few more notes here and there but it's still the same basic structure. And so it's obvious that it was written for the cello first and that it was conceived as a one voice fugue. On the one hand you have this incredibly complex first movement that evokes this sort of orchestral sonority out of a cello, and then you have the sarabande which is-

00:56:10

John Banther: Imagine getting broken up with in 1720 and having to hear her play this.

00:56:23

James Jacobs: There's nothing bleaker really in all of music, as far as I'm concerned, than the sarabande to the fifth suite. And it's-

00:56:30

John Banther: And it's been used in events like a 9/ 11 memorial with Yo- Yo Ma.

00:56:34

James Jacobs: Absolutely. That's what you want to hear. To get very personal, I played it for my dying cello teacher who requested it. And I played it for her at her ... When she was on her deathbed, literally. So I have experience with doing that exact thing. And it's the ultimate expression of loneliness. It's like yes, I'm all alone here. But it also creates a sense of communion because it's like yeah, we've all felt that way. That's what you get from the blues, that's what you get from the best of that expression of grief. Yo- Yo Ma talked about this because he also used it, on a personal level, to express that grief. And there's something about this suite that is so connected.

And even in the other movements, even in the Jeeg, Bach doesn't bother to sort of ... He lets the seam show, let's put it that way. It still feels lonely, it still feels like there's other ... He could have tried harder to fill in the gaps and he didn't. And that seemed like a deliberate choice that ... The idea that one person could do a fugue all by themselves, or one person ... I mean, it's how we all felt during the pandemic, right? It's sort of like how do you fill that gap but with that isolation. And so the entire suite is really a study in isolation. I think that's why it's so affecting to so many people. He sort of allows the cello to sound lonely, allows the cello to sound isolated, and leans into that. As you said, the six different ways of looking at a cello and this is one of the aspects. And he raises that loneliness and abstracts that to a new height.

00:58:43

John Banther: And could there be any bigger contrast than the sixth suite? This opens so joyful. I mean, plenty of composers have had a hard time writing a symphony. Rachmaninoff, for example. His second symphony, it feels like when he gets to the finale it's almost like a relief. I've done it now I can have fun. And it feels like for the sixth suite here there is some joy of survival or something.

00:59:13

James Jacobs: Oh, absolutely. Well, one more thing about the fifth suite is that he actually constricts its range by having the A string, the top string tuned down to the ... Actually, that makes it sound even more isolated and claustrophobic because he's doing this all within this limited range. And then the-

00:59:31

John Banther: You said he changed the tuning a little bit?

00:59:31

James Jacobs: Yeah.

00:59:31

John Banther: Okay.

00:59:31

James Jacobs: Yeah, he changed the A string notes which affects the ... Well, it affects the tonality but it also affects the sort of the timbre of the cello.

00:59:41

John Banther: Because that's something people might not know is that it's the same ... You're playing the same note. It says D you're going to play a D, for example. But by lowering it you've changed the resonance, how that responds to your bridge, and to the sound post, and all of that which makes that different sound in a contrast to some of the stuff you said before too with how you have to deal with the sound.

01:00:00

James Jacobs: Yeah, absolutely. It's more muted in a way. You have to do more with less which is what the fifth suite is all about. And in the sixth suite he does exactly the opposite, he actually adds a whole new string.

01:00:20

John Banther: Yeah, what is this?

01:00:22

James Jacobs: People have been asking that question for 300 years, what did Bach intend for the sixth ... At the beginning of the Anna Magdalena manuscript he ... It says, " Five strings." And she illustrates the five strings by saying that there's a top E string as well.

01:00:42

John Banther: Well, what do you do when you're in 1730 and you're sitting there with four strings on a cello?

01:00:46

James Jacobs: Well, five- string cellos existed-

01:00:48

John Banther: Okay.

01:00:49

James Jacobs: But they existed in different ways. There was a thing called the viola pomposa which was actually just a viola with an E string. So we know that Bach owned one of those. But then you'd have to play the whole thing an octave higher. So is that what Bach meant? There was also a violoncello da spalla which is a very fat viola that you ... You had a strap and you sort of held it sideways. And there's some pictures of people playing-

01:01:19

John Banther: Oh, yes.

01:01:19

James Jacobs: This thing.

01:01:20

John Banther: Yes. We'll put that on the show notes page.

01:01:24

James Jacobs: And so there is some evidence that existed. And there are recordings. There's now a whole sort of school of spalla players who insisted that that's the way to play it. It makes the bowing a lot easier but it also is very bad in terms of the resonance of the low strings so it's ... There's a trade- off. And then there's just putting an extra string on a cello. Which is how most people do this when they try to play it on a five- string cello. If you look at a cello there's limited ... There's only so much you can build up on this bridge.

01:02:03

John Banther: If you think of a string like a lane on a highway, like a beltway, I mean, who wants to add more lanes to that and make them smaller?

01:02:10

James Jacobs: Right. And so you can do that. But if you want to really attack the cello and ... It's like you have to be careful. You don't want to have to be careful when playing the cello. But people do this because they sort of think that it's the best solution to this. But then there's also just doing a (inaudible) , and many, many other cellos have done, which is just try to play the thing on a four- string cello. It's a trade- off because it means there's certain notes you can't play, there's certain chords you can't play and it makes everything ... It's extremely difficult. And you have to go way up on the fingerboard. And what's interesting about that is that even compensating for the extra string you still have to go higher up on ... Even in the five- string version you still ... Bach still expects you to go higher up on the fingerboard than in any of the other suites. Basically, the first four suites have a range of about two and a half octaves, and then all of a sudden he goes to almost four octaves-

01:03:17

John Banther: Okay, that's a lot.

01:03:19

James Jacobs: With a single instrument. That's a huge difference. He was stretching the possibilities even of a five- string instrument let alone a four- string instrument. It's like a sonic spectacular. And the prelude, I would say it's analogous to the famous E major Prelude for violin. It's like this is what that is for the cello. And like that it feels like you've got an orchestra. You're playing an orchestra on five strings.

01:03:54

John Banther: Was it Casals that called this a-

01:03:55

James Jacobs: Rostropovich.

01:03:56

John Banther: Oh, Rostropovich.

01:03:57

James Jacobs: Rostropovich called this a symphony for cello. And you can easily imagine an orchestrated version of this. I mean, if you had to identify the most difficult four minutes of cello music the Prelude might very well be that, even in the five- string version. And, of course, in the four- string version that most people do it's just ... It's so insane. I mean, you can learn the first three suites ... You can learn the notes to them by the time you're 12 or 13 or 14. The sixth suite is as difficult as any concerto. It's insane. And then-

01:04:43

John Banther: Are some of the other movements easier then as a balance?

01:04:46

James Jacobs: No.

01:04:46

John Banther: No. Okay.

01:04:49

James Jacobs: He just expands on that. And so he sets the bar in the prelude and then he expands on that in each successive movement. The allemande becomes a slow movement in its own right. It's beautiful and it's one continuous line. But then the Sarabande is this corral- like melody where he expects the cello players for the strings simultaneously throughout the entire movement. And you can actually play it really beautifully on an orchestra of cellos in four parts which I have done. And there's recordings of it and it sounds gorgeous. And you can do it with one cello, obviously, people have. I mean, it deserves to be as better ... As well known as say the Air on the G String or the ... It's just this gorgeous, gorgeous melody.

The whole thing feels sort of orchestral in a way. And it really brings the whole set to this magnificent conclusion. We come from the first suite which is all about what does a cello sound like when it's just playing itself practically. What can a cello sound like if you just modify it a little bit with an extra string, or if you just practice really hard, and expand its capabilities to symphonic proportions? And he takes you on this journey through all six suites to get to this apex of the entire cello literature. And it's really like nothing else. And it's because of that, because it comes from perhaps lowered expectations, that you might get coming in because it's just a cello which people barely acknowledged at the time.

01:06:47

John Banther: Yeah, it wasn't a big solo instrument.

01:06:49

James Jacobs: Right. And it's sort of like this is what you're walking into and this is what you're walking out with. It's such an amazing journey which is why I think that these ... Which is why these cello suites are so affecting. And I think it's because when you play it the effort shows a little bit and so it's a very human journey as well of going through those six suites with this mountain of the sixth suite being your destination. It's really like nothing else in music.

01:07:24

John Banther: Well, James, this has been tremendous. And thank you for summing it up. That first suite, cellos playing itself, and then the sixth it's just like what is possible? We're going to do it all. And you've really changed how I listened to this entirely. And, actually, even after we're talking now I'm going to hear it differently. So I'm going to put some of these ... Some more information on the show notes page and maybe a playlist with just the Préludes & Sarabandes. It's really fun to hear it that way. But we're also lucky in that we get to hear a full performance of one right now by cellist Mischa Maisky. But which suite should we listen to, James?

01:08:05

James Jacobs: Let's listen to number two and hear what Mischa Maisky has to do with this journey, this ... One of the most personal of the suites.

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MUSIC: (music)

01:08:13

John Banther: Thanks for listening to Classical Breakdown, your guide to classical music. For more information on this episode, visit the show notes page at classicalbreakdown. org. You can send me comments and episode ideas to classicalbreakdown@WETA. org, and if you enjoyed this episode, leave a review in your podcast app. I'm John Banther. Thanks for listening to Classical Breakdown from WETA Classical.

01:32:02

MUSIC: ( music)